Feed the dog.

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Re: Feed the dog.

Postby Sander » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:50 am

Exodus chapter 11. Verse 7.
But to all the children of Israel, not one dog will whet its tongue against either man or beast, in order that you shall know that the Lord will separate between the Egyptians and between Israel.'
That no dog would put its tongue to all the children of israel as they were leaving Egypt, was a miraculous event. From this we learn that in ordinary life, when a miracle is not happening, it is natural for a dog to stick its tongue on a person.

I consulted a teacher (he teaches in jewish high school) why stray dogs get an exemption on Shabbat, that one is permitted to feed them. He told me, dogs have a special category in the laws of shabbat because of the Exodus, that dogs were a sign of the separation between Egyptians and Israel.
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Re: Feed the dog.

Postby aries » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:39 am

Dogs are exempted on Shabbat for the same reason that it says to throw them the treif caracasses, they did us the favor of not barking during the plague. That is what it says in the midrash. If you want to make up new perushim, that's wonderful. However, you shouldn't make it sound like it is the reason given by the Rabbis of the Mishneh and Talmud.

For example, the egg on the seder plate. The reason given in the talmud is that egg in Aramaic sounds like bring like in bringing a karban. However, most children learn that it has something to do with mourning or the nature of the universe, both which are very recent insightful suggestions but they are not the reason given by the midrash.
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Re: Feed the dog.

Postby Sander » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:33 am

aries wrote:Dogs are exempted on Shabbat for the same reason that it says to throw them the treif caracasses, they did us the favor of not barking during the plague.
I am not familiar with that. Which plague did they not bark, and how did it favor us?
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Feed the dog.

Postby aries » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:10 pm

Shemot 11:7

Macot habechorot Plague of the first born

And in all the bnei yisrael a dog did not growl

Therefore the torah says in Treifot "throw it to the dogs" to teach us that the holy one blessed be his name does hold back the wages of any animal
Michiltah parshat Mispatim

Michiltah is one of the earliest books of midrashim.

As to what favor this was, your guess is as good as anyone else. The Jews were scared enough they didn't need dogs barking (dog's barking is a sign that the Angel of Death is in the neighborhood). Why didn't the dogs bark in the Hounds of Baskerville?
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Re: Feed the dog.

Postby Enora » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:43 pm

(dog's barking is a sign that the Angel of Death is in the neighborhood)

I remember reading something once about the hours of the night: first donkeys bray, then dogs howl, then you hear the breastfeeding mother talking to her husband. I don't think it was related with the parasha but to the hour of prayer, yet it's interesting.
Because indeed, where I live, you hear donkeys a few hours later dogs, packs of dogs! Howling like mad and around 4am the call to prayer. A typical middle eastern night right? So dogs NOT howling at that time of night, especially when death is right upon mitzraim is ODD.
Dogs are "rebellious" in nature according to a lot of our writings. Here they do not rebel, even when all their senses and instincts should be inciting them to do so. I would think, in such a context, things might of seemed very different that night to egyptians AND hebrews.
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dreaming of dogs

Postby aries » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:51 pm

If a man sees a dog in a dream he should say "no dog growled among the Jews" before the verse from Isaiah 56: dogs are brazen/bold (chuzpidick?) kicks in.

Berachot 56b
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Re: Feed the dog.

Postby Sander » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:13 am

aries wrote:Dogs are exempted on Shabbat for the same reason that it says to throw them the treif caracasses, they did us the favor of not barking during the plague. That is what it says in the midrash. If you want to make up new perushim, that's wonderful. However, you shouldn't make it sound like it is the reason given by the Rabbis of the Mishneh and Talmud.

For example, the egg on the seder plate. The reason given in the talmud is that egg in Aramaic sounds like bring like in bringing a karban. However, most children learn that it has something to do with mourning or the nature of the universe, both which are very recent insightful suggestions but they are not the reason given by the midrash.

I don't get it, what are you saying. I did not mention anything about mishneh or gemara.

You wrote that dogs are exempted on Shabbat. As I understand it, this puts dogs in a special category for the laws of Shabbat. What is the reason or principle for putting dogs in a special category - is it Shemot 11:7, or if it is not shemot 11:7, then what is the reason?
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Re: Feed the dog.

Postby aries » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:09 am

I consulted a teacher (he teaches in jewish high school) why stray dogs get an exemption on Shabbat, that one is permitted to feed them. He told me, dogs have a special category in the laws of shabbat because of the Exodus, that dogs were a sign of the separation between Egyptians and Israel.


I was referring to the answer of the teacher was inaccurate when he gave an answer that the dogs were a sign of separation between the Egyptians and Israel.
My observation was related to methodology, when one gives an answer to a student's question, one should make it clear that the answer is not exactly what the Rabbis of the Talmud said.

I have to say that the number of picky picky people like me around is kinda small.
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