Making Kiddush

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Making Kiddush

Postby Kira » Wed May 12, 2010 8:51 pm

According to Halacha, the best way to make Kiddush on Shabbat is for one person to say it for all the people that will be eating together, as there is honor in numbers.

So ... what about families that asks their guests to make Kiddush also? What about a guest asking to make Kiddush for themselves?

What about being a guest in a family where each adult (or even children under Bar Mitzvah) take turns making Kiddush?

What should one say or not say?

-Kira
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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby rivka » Thu May 13, 2010 1:40 am

I'm just glad I don't have to say it for my kids any more, since my son's bar mitzvah.

(Although when I was mispalel for a man to say kiddush for me, apparently I should have been more specific. ;)
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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby martinbrody » Thu May 13, 2010 6:06 am

Kira wrote:According to Halacha, the best way to make Kiddush on Shabbat is for one person to say it for all the people that will be eating together, as there is honor in numbers.

So ... what about families that asks their guests to make Kiddush also? What about a guest asking to make Kiddush for themselves?

What about being a guest in a family where each adult (or even children under Bar Mitzvah) take turns making Kiddush?

What should one say or not say?

-Kira


I think that people that insist on making kiddush for themselves, even if offered that opportunity by their host, are rude and quite frankly insulting their host.
You asked!
Best,
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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Enora » Thu May 13, 2010 10:38 am

I agree with Martin... what the heck!? A guest asking to do Kiddush for themselves!? Ohhhh the offense!!
However in the case of being invited to a home where everyone does it for themselves, I'd do likewise.
I've never encountered such a situation.
It's always "No you're our guest, YOU say kiddush (for everyone)"... "No no you're the baal ha bayit, YOU say kiddush"
That's where I jump in and say "How 'bout I say it?" and that usually jumpstarts the men.
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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Saronic » Sun May 16, 2010 4:42 pm

I asked the Lubovitcher Rabbi of my town why all the men at his table say Kiddush, and I even asked: "Hey, isn't there an idea of honor in numbers? (Except I used the Hebrew phrase.) And he replied: "Yes, there's honor in numbers...we're all eating here together."

One of my Rebbeim from my year in Israel would always make Kiddush for himself. We learned in his Shiur, however, that one's not ideally supposed to do that. So I asked him: "Nu, why do you say it?!" He responded that people often slur the words and he likes to be super careful.

Ever since I took Hebrew I and II at YU I always utter under my breath: "Kodshecha" when the person saying Kiddush says: "Kadshecha."
I always have an internal debate that maybe that would be considered an interruption...

If I'm with friends and if they ask: "Ok, I'm going to make kiddush...have in mind...etc." I usually respond with: "I reserve the right not to be embarrassed if I end up spacing out and have to say Kiddush myself." It happens.
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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Enora » Sun May 16, 2010 5:25 pm

Hmm yes people who don't articulate are a problem.
And correcting a person in the middle of Kiddush. I don't think that's a hefsek if they said it wrong... but hmmm now you have me wondering!
The person listening to kiddush has the same status as the person reciting kiddush. Both must be as attentive.
Principle of Shomea’ Ka’oneh.
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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby kiddush cup » Mon May 17, 2010 3:14 am

If I have a married man over at my house, I'll prepare him a becher. I've had guest who said "Have me in mind with your kiddush." What's wrong with a guest asking to recite kiddush for himself if he wants to?
I've never heard the honor in numbers theory applied to kiddush.
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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby martinbrody » Mon May 17, 2010 3:47 am

Derech eretz comes first. If somebody makes a mistake, let it pass. Privately tell him afterwards.
It's rude to want to make your own kiddush, plus it makes you look arrogant.

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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Kira » Mon May 17, 2010 5:35 am

"I reserve the right not to be embarrassed if I end up spacing out and have to say Kiddush myself." It happens.
What happens? That you forget that someone's making kiddush for you?

It's not like there's a requirement to understand the words in order to be Yotzei.

Never mind "Kodshecha" vs "Kadshecha", what about people who mumble the first few words so badly it doesn't even sound like a Bracha any more, like "Bruch-ta-nai"?

KC, it is definitely an issue for Kiddush, I'll ask my husband for the exact source.

-Kira
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Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Enora » Mon May 17, 2010 12:07 pm

If somebody makes a mistake, let it pass.

Yeah ok but if they mumbled or made a mistake and they're reciting it for you, would it even be valid? Or would you have to say it again for yourself?
(just to be precise though, let's say the mumbling or mistakes happens in the actual bracha "Baruch ata......... bore peri hagefen")
I don't think most people get offended when they're corrected on a word or two. (uh and do most people even make a mistake in the actual sentence anyways?? Mumble they do sometimes....)

Can't you just accompany the person reciting kiddush? Say it loud enough so you can hear it?
I know in my community often the men will do kiddush out loud together.

What I don't get is , if a person insists on reciting kiddush for themselves, it's that they have a issue with "the other person" reciting it for them... if you have such an issue with a person, why are you eating over at their house? What the food's kosher but not the rest? I don't get it and as my husband says "a person does that in MY house, he's not ever invited back" and I agree.
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