Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

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Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby Sander » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:23 pm

Here are some pictures of Ibex in Israel. I think the issue is, are these animals wild animals, and therefore not suitable for kosher consumption? It looks like the one on bottom left might be wearing a collar, so maybe these belong to somebody. If you follow the URL link, you will see the ones in the background are raiding the garbage.


http://photo.dennisfox.net/galleries/2006/israelpalestine_2006/ibex/pages/page_14.html
Image
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Re: Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby Enora » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:07 pm

I bet you a bagel those things taste like goat and probably give you a nasty stomach ache (and so much more lol).
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Re: Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby Yisroelp » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:44 am

What is the fact that they are wild animals got to do with it? So are deer, but they are kosher.

Anyway, in answer to your question I found the following on the OU web site (at http://www.ou.org/kosher/primer.html):


A. Meat:
The Torah states that kosher mammals are those which chew their cud (ruminants) and are cloven-hoofed. The following animal species are among those considered to be Kosher: Addax, Antelope, Bison, Cow, Deer, Gazelle, Giraffe, Goat, Ibex and Sheep. In addition, meat and poultry require special preparation, which will be discussed below.
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Re: Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby aries » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:21 pm

An ibex is a goat (capra). Like all goats, the dominant female is in charge. When she stands up, the herd stands up, she sits down the herd sits down, she say eat, they eat, she says stop eating, they stop eating. The males live separate, not doing much of anything. In my research, I found that the dominant female has more testosterone than any of the males with the exception of the dominant male. I also found that the older females have male children while the younger have females. The idea is that since only a male child from a dominant female is going to take over the herd, it would be a waste of metabolic energy to bother with male offspring.
Alternatively, males being biologically weaker require a more dominant mother to make sure they get enough nourishment.
Now goat meat is not popular because it smells like goat meat. Someone got the idea to cross the ibex with a domestic goat. It was called an Yaez (Yael, Aiz; ibex/goat). They spent about twenty years breeding a herd. However it turned out the meat was inedible. Not one of our finest research programs.
Oh yeah, that collar is a GPS device for tracking the ibex.
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Re: Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby Enora » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:46 am

found that the dominant female has more testosterone than any of the males with the exception of the dominant male.(...)
Alternatively, males being biologically weaker require a more dominant mother to make sure they get enough nourishment.


So they're basically jewish goats? :lol:

Now goat meat is not popular because it smells like goat meat.

People eat smellier stuff.
Goat meat IS popular, especially kid. It's the type of meat most consumed in the world (along with Lamb).
It seems to me, from personal observation, that if your intestine wasn't raised on goat, there's a chance it's going to try to bail out of your body the minute it sees a morsel of the stuff shooting down your esophagus.
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Re: Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby Roo » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:51 am

If I had to eat goat meat,more than just would intenstines would bail out.
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Re: Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby mariaw » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:44 pm

Counting a few old goats & some really giant babies:

SAVING ISRAEL by gathering Torah's foundations & Geneology isn't a
small matter.

You can't kill an already dead people. You can, however, raise their records
& judge them by seeing how TORAH fits together so PERFECTLY!

You don't have to kill & eat these goats!!! Just count them & find their owners.
These goats belong to Agag, King of the Amaleks.

I have heard somebody chanting these words: Destroy! Destroy Jerusalem to its very
foundation! I hear it on every News Channel. Psalm 137.7 "Remember, HASHEM, for the
offspring of Edom, the day of Jerusalem ; for those who say, "Destroy, Destroy! to
its very foundation."

Psalms 137.8 "O, violated daughter of Babylon, praiseworthy is he who repays you
in accordance with the manner that you treated us.
Praiseworthy is he who will clutch and dash your infants against the rock."

The quickest way to kill somebody is cause them to stumble over the Rock.
Its strange how some misinterpret most of these stories.

THE TORAH'S ROCK:
Deuteronomy 32.3-4 "When I call out the Name of HASHEM, ascribe greatness to our G-d
Perfect is HIS Work; for all His paths are justice."

Samuel continues teaching king Saul the Torah. The records say something strange.
1 Samuel 15.17----Samuel questions King Saul????? "Is this not so?
Though you may be small in your own eyes,
you are the head of the tribes of Israel;
and HASHEM has anointed you to be king over Israel."

The King of Israel & head over the tribes thinks he is----SMALL.
However, HASHEM sends King Saul off to Destroy, wage war & exterminate AMALEK.
So, lets help him just a little, pardon the pun.

If King Saul thinks he is small, then he must think Amalek is a giant by comparison.
Israel might feel kind of small in relation to the number of
countries surrounding it.

Take a closer look at Torah's idea of INFANTCIDE:
I shall begin with some gigantic babies.
These are children of the violated daughter of Babylon.
Babylon's daughter is a grandaughter of HAM, Noah's son.
Who violated her?

Genesis 6.2----The sons of rulers..Noah is a son & a perfectly righteous man in his
generation. Noah's wife (I assume) is a perfectly good "daughter of man."
Their son, Ham, however is said to be small.
(Gen. 9.24) Ham is related to the Nephillim who were on the earth,
pre-flood AND also afterward. How else do you get a giant son aboard an ark?
You put him on while he is still small.

The Nephillim were distinct because they were known as MEN OF DEVASTATION!
Psalms 78.51----The tents of Ham also contained the Egyptian "first-born" the
first fruit of their strength.

Amalek is the grandson of Esau.(Gen. 36.12)
Esau is also Jacob's brother & a son of a ruler. Gen. 25.25.

Gen. 6.4 Amalek & The Nephillim, sons of the giant. The thing that makes people think
they are giants is usualyl due to the Name they make for themselves.
For example, the city of Babylon. The infants of the violated daughters of Babylon
give birth to The Nephillim (giant), mighty who, from old, were men of devastation.
So the Name they make for themselves is-------MEN OF DEVASTATION.

Let us connect something: Haman of Esther's story (Est. 3.1) is the son of Hammedatha
the AGAGITE. If you recall King Saul captures Agag, king of Amalek, alive. King Agag
is related to the Nephillim or giants of the pre-flood era. How does that giant board
Noah's ark? After the banquet of wine, Haman falls upon Esther's bed. (Est 7.8)
After the banquet of wine, Noah "uncovers himself within his tent?" Ham "his small son"
sees his father's nakedness & tells his two brothers outside. Ham sees his father's bed,
so to speak.

How does this add up: The sons of prince violated the daughters of Babylon..
Est. 7.8 returns and sees Haman fallen upon Esther's bed and asks

"Will he force the queen also before me in the house?"

The forced daughters of Babylon who had corrupt children...men of devastation.
This began with Noah's wife and his little son, Ham or during the pre-flood era.

The one who tries to "force the queen" before the King in the house" is also the one
who is trying to usurp the KING Himself.

TORAH will not be usurped or REPLACED!!!!!
Remember the ROCK? THE TORAH'S ROCK:
Deuteronomy 32.3-4 "When I call out the Name of HASHEM, ascribe greatness to our G-d
Perfect is HIS Work; for all His paths are justice."

Remember the Babylonians (men of destruction) who were making Names for themselves?

Isaiah 33.17 "Your eyes will behold the King in His splendor; they will see Him from a faraway land.
Your heart will muse in dread, 'Where is the one who counts? Where is the one who weighs?"

Counting sheep & goats & weighing judgment? I thought this very interesting how all this fits perfectly.

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Re: Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby aries » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:52 pm

Maria, as usual, I do not comprehend your point.

However, the animals are ibexes. Ibexes are a protected animal. They were extinct in Israel and have been reintroduced as part of our program of reintroducing native species to Israel. In the last decades we have concentrated on reintroducing the Persian fallow deer.
Bottom line: no one in Israel eats ibexes as they are a protected species.
Lots of people eat domestic goat. Actually we had a hard time convincing the Bedouin to stop giving goat's milk to their infants and children because of Brucellosis.
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Re: Ibex in Israel - are these kosher to eat?

Postby mariaw » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:03 pm

aries,
The IBEXS are connectors:

My point is that I see Torah as a well ordered list. I think there are seven Ibex in the picture.
There are also seven days in Genesis creation. There are many "sevens" in Torah & keeping
with the context, I will know which "seven" to read about.

I shop in a large market where everything is so well ordered, I could shop blindfolded.

The fruits & vegetables are at the front.
The meat section is next & close to the wall.
The bread, jellies, and coffee section is next.
Every single product in the store fits together as you might plan a menu.
If the managers changed the store's order around...my brain would lapse into chaos (well, not really, but)
as I have everything memorized in order.

Torah is so well ordered & every single story fits together from the geneology of Jacob
to Amalek's grandfather Esua (Gen. 36.12) that you can almost study blindfolded, so to speak.
Torah's incredibly beautiful order aids the memory.

To show the beauty of how well ordered Torah really is & how lovely HASHEM has fit everything
together, there are lists. If you have shopped in Torah for a long time & have a good
memory you will remember where you saw the sections on "doves."
The following eleven animals are a grocery list, so to speak, from Torah.

1. Three heifers
2. Three goats
3. Three rams
4. A turtle dove & a young dove

Well, I had a little problem with the heifer, goat & ram section but the
turtle doves flew right back to Noah. Apparently Noah was looking for dry ground, &
sent the dove out twice.

The first time the dove finds no rest for "the sole of its foot." Gen. 8.9
The second time she brings back an olive leaf. Gen. 8.11

The dove is looking for land, so how does that fit in with the heifer, goat & ram?

Abram, now Abraham knows, the answer to this question:

The soles of the heifers, goats & rams feet are cloven.

Genesis 15.18 "On that day HASHEM made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your
descendants have I given this land,......."

Well, what can I say & to shorten my long story.....I still come up with the goodly tents of Jacob.

Numbers 24.5...The vision of Shaddai---Joseph & his blessings---Genesis 49.25

The goodly tents are perfectly lined out & inhabited by the righteous who provide
blessings in Torah.

Exodus 28.9---Two Shohan stones for Aaron's Ephod remind me to study Israel's twelve
sons.

This order of names & birth dates (geneology) of the twelve can allow me to criss cross
Torah almost blindfolded. I say "can" because I haven't studied that far yet & I know
I'll never finish "seeing" in my life time. However, I also know this IS NOT an individual
endeavor.

I think HASHEM provides Abraham with a good knowledge of Torah's lay of the land?

The beauty of Torah's Light (Gen. 1.3) exceeds the chaotic writing of every other book
& prophet who tries to mimic or imitate.

aries, I hope you understand a little of what my point is?
These LISTS of animals & people help me remember other parts
of Torah & how they are connected. THE IBEXS are connectors.
mariaw
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