Parsha Mishpatim

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Parsha Mishpatim

Postby Sander » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:08 pm

Parsha mishpatim - exodus chapter 21 verse 1 to chapter 24 version 18
I love this parsha. It has so many topics. Here is one I like:
Chapter 23 verse 13:
Concerning all that I have said to you you shall beware, and the name of the gods of others you shall not mention; it shall not be heard through your mouth.
the name of gods of others you shall not mention
Interesting translation "gods of others". I always thought it said "other gods".
Taking it as "gods of others", that means it shal not be heard through your mouth, the god of catholics, the god of muslims, the gods of India, the gods of Japan, and so on.
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby Enora » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:08 pm

Ok God's of India I get, I even get the "God's of christians" because of their association with Jesus (even though they DO have the "same" One God in mind)... but the God of Muslims?? They have the same God as us. They didn't rethink the concept and are pretty close to judaism's views regarding idolatry. I'd add that in arabic, the word for God, with a capital "G" IS Allah. Al-Ilāh, meaning The God (and people that are machmir about writing God , be it by capitalizing , dashes or whatever, should technically do the same with the word Allah. This has been discussed before by sefardi rabbanim, confronted with the question when so many jews resided in muslim countries and spoke... arabic lol)
There is also the "other" etymological theory that Allah is simply the arabic version of Elokai, derived directly from the Torah...
Which is not so odd considering Ismael no?

I know I might seem biased. Living in a muslim country and all , you might even think I'm writing this out of fear :lol: but in fact, living here a few years now has made me see how much we have in common (and of course what we DON'T have in common... but I'll talk about that when I move out of the country :? lol)
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby rivka » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:10 am

Enora, I agree with you, and I'm not living in a Muslim country.
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby Hart60 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:47 am

Christians don't seem to like it when they are told that they share the same God as Muslims and Jews,I've had many arguments about it with them.

Dan.
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby Enora » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:31 pm

Hart60 wrote:Christians don't seem to like it when they are told that they share the same God as Muslims and Jews,I've had many arguments about it with them.

Dan.


Well, as I'm sure you've noticed, when it comes to christians and their shituf (association), I'm quick to emphasize that things aren't so black or white and try to refrain from categorizing them as idolaters. They might have taken some creative freedom with our concept, true but in essence, their God is still the God of the "Old Testament". Maybe some of them are too stupid to realize that. We have our own share of stupidity so I'll let them deal with it amongst themselves.
Yet I never ever discuss religion with christians unless they're interested in learning about judaism because I'm absolutely NOT interested in ANY of their theology.
To me, bowing down to a crucified jew on a cross, one in thousands of crucified jews, one in millions of tortured and beaten throughout our history is an aberration . Why HE get's the spotlight, I don't know. Then to use that same guy to turn around and kill more jews... on top of the insult of hijacking our Bible, faith and religion.
Have you seen the new postcards out of bethlehem this xmas? Jesus was now the first "shahid"...
the IRONY
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby Hart60 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:55 pm

Enora wrote: Well, as I'm sure you've noticed, when it comes to christians and their shituf (association), I'm quick to emphasize that things aren't so black or white and try to refrain from categorizing them as idolaters. They might have taken some creative freedom with our concept, true but in essence, their God is still the God of the "Old Testament". Maybe some of them are too stupid to realize that.
Yes,they are stupid,not only to not realise that there is only one God but also to believe that Jesus is a God, that to me is where they are guilty of Idolatry.

Enora wrote: Yet I never ever discuss religion with christians unless they're interested in learning about judaism because I'm absolutely NOT interested in ANY of their theology.
I'm afraid I can't resist at least trying to show them the error of thier beliefs.

Enora wrote: To me, bowing down to a crucified jew on a cross, one in thousands of crucified jews, one in millions of tortured and beaten throughout our history is an aberration . Why HE get's the spotlight, I don't know.
Ah but this one is 'sposed to have come back to life again , Imho just one of the things taken from Mithraism,probably by Saul of Tarsus.

Enora wrote: Then to use that same guy to turn around and kill more jews...
Sadly very true I'm afraid to say.

Enora wrote: on top of the insult of hijacking our Bible, faith and religion.
They did, but had to mistranslate and mis transliterate it first to suit their means.

Enora wrote:Have you seen the new postcards out of bethlehem this xmas? Jesus was now the first "shahid"...
the IRONY
I haven't seen any myself ,but I guess as they are using the word "shahid" it's also bit of a pop at Islam.

Best wishes,
Dan.
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby Sander » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:10 am

The point I was angling for was "the name of gods of others you shall not mention". I take this to mean that one should avoid even discussing other religions, such as the topic of which of them worship idols. Because it is difficult to avoid mentioning the names of gods of others in such discussion, and here in parsha mishpatim we have a prohibition.

On shabbat mishpatim (3 days ago) a rabbi in our neighborhood hosted a shalom zachar and a bris at his home, for his grandson. In discussing the matter with a third person, that person asked me if I knew where the rabbi lived, and I said yes, he lives on such and such a street, next to the catholic school. To which the response was, that I should not say next to the 'catholic' school, as this would be prohibited under the rule "the name of gods of others you shall not mention".
Further, I was told one should write a date using the name of the month, rather than the number, such as "February 1, 2011", rather than "02/01/2011". Why? Because the torah tells us that the month of Nissan is the first month, not January. So by writing February as "02", one is counting January as the first month, thus contradicting Torah which tells us Nissan is the first month.
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby Kira » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:08 pm

Hmm... how does that fit in with the fact that January is itself named after a Roman god?

Not to mention our own months, like Tammuz and Tishrei, that are named after Babylonian gods?

I've never heard a good explanation for that.

-Kira
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby Enora » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:03 pm

Yes,they are stupid,not only to not realise that there is only one God but also to believe that Jesus is a God, that to me is where they are guilty of Idolatry.

Well that's not what I meant hehe. I don't think somebody is stupid for not believing in One God, let alone the concept of God. What I mean was I think some christians are stupid for not seeing the irony of Jesus (I.S), his death etc... and what they've done in his name to the very people who was part of. Now believing a man can be son of God is another story I won't get into lol, not my religion, not my problem.
I'm afraid I can't resist at least trying to show them the error of thier beliefs.

We all have our battles ;)
I just think they're lucky copyright laws didn't exist then.
Ah but this one is 'sposed to have come back to life again

Yeah it's a recurrent theme lol
I haven't seen any myself ,but I guess as they are using the word "shahid" it's also bit of a pop at Islam.
Well it's more then a pop. Jesus is a prophet for muslims. The first "shahid", because a "palestinian killed by jews". One of the postcards had Mary, wrapped in a palestinian flag as a veil, holding the baby. The second had the 3 kings in front of "the wall", unable to continue their journey.
These cards were in association with some Irish catholic group.
Imagine that. A jew living on his land 2000 years ago...now represents the arab palestinians. Go figure.
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Re: Parsha Mishpatim

Postby rivka » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:34 pm

Even under modern copyright laws, you can't copyright ideas.
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