why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby mariaw » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:14 pm

It sounds to me that Israel's current affairs & problems are also internal ones.
But then we all have to learn about our own Evil Inclinations and what we should do to cast them out.

After careful thought & a little more study of Jewish websites,
I now believe that Abraham, Isaac & Moses fear of death can probably be \
compared to their fear of their Yetzer HaRa (Evil Inclination.)

I could be wrong!!!!! However,

Gen. 20.2---- Abimelech, king of Gerar, represents Abraham’s Evil Inclination
who wishes to “drag away” Abraham’s Wisdom.
Of course HASHEM’S warnings come thru loud & clear, so what does the Yetzer HaRa do?

Genesis Rabba teaches us that Abimelech simply returns Sarah along with his daughter, Hagar, as hand maid.
Now Abraham has two wives, one is from HASHEM and represents heavenly Wisdom
and the other is the daughter of his Evil Inclination.

Why do I think this? Abimelech is king of Gerar.
Gerar comes from a primitive root word meaning roughly to “drag off.”
It can also mean to destroy. So what is Abraham’s solution?

Cast out the Yetzer HaRa!”

Abraham’s wife, Sarah, who also represents his wisdom decides that Hagar (Abraham’s possible Yetzer HaRa)
is a “bond woman” and needs to be “cast out.” Genesis 21.10.

“Casting Out” is found in many scriptures. I think one of its meanings is to conquer sin within our own selves.
Lev. 20.23
I think Genesis 4.6 is the example where HASHEM says to Cain: “sin rests at the door.
Its desire is toward you, yet you can conquer it.”

After much looking up of stuff written on the net by Jewish folks, I’ve learned a few things:
The thing to fear most is death of the soul which can come if a man allows the Yetzer HaRa to take control.

"There shall no strange god be in you." (Psalm 81:10). What is the strange god within a man's body?
It is none other than the impulse to evil.

Question? Was Israel’s lengthy stay in Egypt an historical record & lesson on what the Yetzer HaRa does to an
individual & to a nation and what an individual & nation should do to cast out the Yetzer HaRa?

I think the answer is found in Moses proposed three day trip into the wilderness and his offerings to HASHEM.

mariaw
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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby Kira » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:27 pm

(Hagar is Pharaoh's daughter, not Avimelech's, but that's a detail)

Excellent point about casting out.

-Kira
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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby mariaw » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:02 pm

Dear Kira,
Thanks so much for your reply. You are correct! Hagar, was the daughter of Pharaoh (the Great House of Egypt).
Sarah, Abraham’s wife, exiled Hagar from Abraham’s home twice. (Genesis 16.7)
Once while she was pregnant & another time after Hagar had given birth to Ishmael (Genesis 21.14)
The first time Sarah declares that Hashem is judge between her & Abraham. (Gen. 16.5)
And next, Hashem tells Abraham to listen to Sarah concerning this matter.
1. “Whatever Sarah tells you, heed her voice, since through Isaac will offspring be considered yours.”
HASHEM is judge & Sarah is jury:

And I’ve been called to jury duty in my county, literally! How cool is that?
The judge has given us information on the law & how to discern from the evidence etc etc.

The following is evidence against atheist & their “pink unicorn” theories:
Why is this important? Because many people make fun of the bible because, according to the KJV, the bible is full of “unicorns” & everybody knows a unicorn is a flying white horse with one horn. Right?!

NOPE! Sorry, the KJV people mistranslated the Hebrew word for WILD BULL into unicorn.
The ancients use to plow with oxen as recorded of Elias when Elijah calls him to be a prophet.
Plowing probably represents “teaching.” And I've found Hashem instructing Job about “wild bulls.”

HASHEM gets Israel out of Egypt:
Job 39.10----Hashem questions Job, “Can you hitch a wild ox to the plow with it’s rope?
Would he hoe valleys behind you?” And the answer is yes because HASHEM is teaching Job about HASHEM getting Israel out of Egypt.
Numbers 23:22 “It is G-d Who brought them out of Egypt according to the power of His loftiness.”
I know my Tanach doesn’t add the words “wild bull” to “loftiness” but I have other evidence in Job that HASHEM is teaching Job about Israel’s leaving Egypt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVIDENCE:
Job 39.5 “Who set the wild donkey free & who loosened the bonds of the wild donkey?”
Numbers 22.9-25----Also has Balaam’s “wild donkey.”
Job 39:13----The ostriches becoming “hardened against her offspring.”
Gen. 22.15-16----Hagar goes into the wilderness and “casts the boy underneath one of the trees. She went and cast herself down at a distance, some bowshots away, for she said, “Let me not see the death of the child.”

Is Hagar the "ostriche" in Job's story?
Job 39.18----The ostrich!
The ostrich laughs at the horse & rider. Hagar knows the story of HASHEM getting Israel out of Egypt and hears Moses singing about the horse & rider being thrown into the sea. (Exodus 15.1) and she laughs?

Further Evidence from Job: The eagle!
Job 39.26----HASHEM asks “Is it by your command that the eagle soars?”

Deuteronomy 32.11---- HASHEM “He was like an eagle arousing its nest, hovering over its young, spreading its wings and taking them, carrying them on its pinions. HASHEM, ALONE GUIDED THEM AND NO OTHER POWER WAS WITH THEM.”
HASHEM teaches Job the difference between Hagar & Ishmael’s people & HASHEM getting Israel out of Egypt. And Balaam sees all this in a vision through the eyes of a wild donkey?

Numbers 24.5 “How goodly are your tents, O Jacob, your dwelling places, O Israel;”
One more Job 38.39----The lion and her cubs----Numbers 24.8-9 ----G-d brings Israel out of Egypt according to the power of his loftiness. He will consume the nations that oppress him and crush their bones & his arrows shall pierce them. He crouched & lay down like a lion, and like a lion cub who can stand him up? Those who bless you are blessed and those who curse you is accursed.”

The above is another reference to the story of Balaak’s seeking Balaam’s help in cursing Israel. You can't curse Israel!!!!

Well anyway, thanks again, Kira
mariaw
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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby Kira » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:05 pm

Did you say "unicorn"?

What????

Where are there unicorns in the Bible?

-Kira
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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby aries » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:36 pm

Unicorns in the bible. I always preferred aurochs.
The auroch is believed to be extinct but they are trying to backbreed it from the bison in lithuania for several years now.

Re'em (Hebrew: רֶאֵם‎‎), a beast mentioned nine times in the Bible (Job 39:9,10, Deuteronomy 33:17, Numbers 23:22 and 24:8; Psalms 22:21, 29:6 and 92:10; and Isaiah 34:7) and translated as "unicorn" in the Authorized King James Version, has been suggested by some modern bible scholars like Johann Ulrich Duerst, to be based on the Akkadian cognate rimu, as Bos primigenius, the aurochs, progenitor of cattle.[1]
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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby Enora » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:05 pm

Unicorn sounds a lot funner then aurochs...
Man what is it with us and advertising/communications? We stink at it!
We say Aurochs the xtians call it a Unicorn and TADA it's all over the place from medieval tapestries to glitter stickers of the the 80's.
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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby Hart60 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:06 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if "Harry Potter" wasn't found somewhere in a KJV version. :roll:

Sorry, I digress - would the Exodus have the same spiritual meaning if The Pharaoh just let them go ? - Blood,frogs,gnats, wild beasts,boils,first born etc.
Would there be a passover ?

Dan.
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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby Kira » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:59 pm

Hart60 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if "Harry Potter" wasn't found somewhere in a KJV version. :roll:

Sorry, I digress - would the Exodus have the same spiritual meaning if The Pharaoh just let them go ? - Blood,frogs,gnats, wild beasts,boils,first born etc.
Would there be a passover ?

Dan.
Sorry, Dan, I'm still trying to wrap my head about translating "re'em" as a unicorn. What'd they do to his other horn?

OK, deep breath ...

Back to the real question - It says very clearly that G-d's intention wasn't simply to get the Jewish People out of Egypt. The main purpose of all the fireworks was "so that they will know that I am Hashem". The Egyptians, not the Jews. The Jews also, but mainly the Egyptians.

As far as we're concerned, at the Seder we say a poem with the refrain "It would have been enough" - at each step of the Redemption, we say, "It would have been enough". So, whatever steps G-d would have included, there would have been a Passover for us to thank Him.

In terms of Moshe lying -there are a few good answers, including: everyone understood what was being said, just it's not something that should be said out loud to a king. But it's not like there were any illusions. Moshe never said that they would come back. He did say "a journey of 3 days, and we will worship our G-d". From there to Sinai is indeed a journey of three days (the fact that it took them over a year is not a function of the distance).

HTH,

-Kira
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unicorns have more fun than pygargs

Postby aries » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:49 pm

Nah unicorns are a better topic or rather the absolutely weird translations of the King James when it comes to animals.
The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.

The word pygarg does not exist in the English language other that this one place. Coney for Shafan and hydrax is another one.

Some conies, pygargs, and aurochs meet this unicorn talking with a chamois, ....
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Re: why doesn't moshe tell pharoah the truth

Postby Hart60 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:37 pm

Well it was a pretty strange creature and apparently King David had an encounter with one -
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/r/reem.html
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