It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

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It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby Sander » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:03 am

It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment. He told Abraham we would be slaves in a land not our own. Why tell Abraham that? Like G-d wants Abraham to know that G-d is going to see to it personally that Israel is going to suffer. What is the point of that?

When Moses died, not able to enter the land of Israel, a reason is stated that Moses did not comply with G-d's wishes to sanctify G-d among the children of Israel. So in that case, there seems some rationality.

But in the case of Jacob and his family going down to Egypt, why was that? Was it a punishment on Jacob for doing a sin? If Jacob had been a better person, would G-d have let him live quietly in Israel, with his son Joseph, and have a peaceful life?
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby Kira » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:13 pm

It's not a punishment.

Even according to those that say, like the Ramban, that Avraham had made a mistake by going down to Egypt, because it meant that his descendants would have to go down to Egypt, still, that promise was made when he was 70 years old, when he first came into the land, earlier.

G-d targeted us for special suffering, that's for sure. But it's not always punishment.

-Kira
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby Sander » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:56 pm

Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 2.
Now the earth was astonishingly empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water.

I heard that from this verse, we learn that the exiles were inevitable. G-d planned from the beginning that we would go into exile.
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby aaron benjamin » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:03 pm

Kira wrote:It's not a punishment.

Even according to those that say, like the Ramban, that Avraham had made a mistake by going down to Egypt, because it meant that his descendants would have to go down to Egypt, still, that promise was made when he was 70 years old, when he first came into the land, earlier.

G-d targeted us for special suffering, that's for sure. But it's not always punishment.

-Kira

If its not punishment sometimes then what is it?
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby ittai » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:41 am

A paragon
Ecc 3:15
That which has been, it already is; and that which is to be, it already has been. And G-d seeks what has gone by.
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby aaron benjamin » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:12 pm

In Isaiah 53 there is an idea that sometimes people may suffer in order to atone for other people's sins. According to Rashi the chapter there is referring to the Nation of Israel.
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby ittai » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:01 pm

In Egypt the nation of Israel needed a victim's blood for their sins.
Other nations have in the nation of Israel, too, a victim, a goat of departure, for them.
This victim, Israel, does not die but shall return.

(Lev 16:10) `And the goat on which the lot for a goat of departure hath gone up is caused to stand living before HaShem to make atonement by it, to send it away for a goat of departure into the wilderness.

After two days Israel shall return.
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby aaron benjamin » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:11 pm

I hope that all of the suffering will end soon with the coming of the geulah shleima etc.
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby Enora » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:43 pm

aaron benjamin wrote:I hope that all of the suffering will end soon with the coming of the geulah shleima etc.

I hope the suffering ends before... if we're smart enough.
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Re: It seems like G-d targeted us for special punishment

Postby aaron benjamin » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:48 pm

Enora wrote:I hope the suffering ends before... if we're smart enough.

Do you really think that the suffering could end before the geulah would come?
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